Searching for... College Veterans' Wisdom.

[kyuuei]

After much back and forth, I've made the scary scary decision of my career path. I'd been leaning toward medical, but I also was clinging onto some long-ago ambition to have a job in something I really REALLY like. I'm settling for something I like enough.

I've decided medical field, and specifically anesthesiology. I'm scared of failure as a result.. but I think it's less scary than drifting through college aimlessly like I've been doing my entire first year. 8 years of school and 4 years of residency look absolutely daunting.. but.. if it's anything like the military, the time goes faster than you think it does.

My grades are good (1st semester 3.5, 2nd 4.0), but I've hardly taken any classes! I currently go to a community college in Texas, and if I could avoid attending a huge university I totally would. I don't think my career path will allow that, but a kid can hope.

I'm totally oblivious to the way college works overall.. I don't know anything about scholarships. Will my degree in applied sciences help with my bachelor degree? Do I need a degree in anesthesiology, or do I need a degree in general medicine of sorts before narrowing it down in medical school itself? How many of you had problems with courses transferring from community college to university? (My friend totally got screwed and had at least 4 classes she had to re-take so I'm so nervous about that.)

How expensive is college when you live on campus or in campus-owned apartments? I know I have to call around to my local colleges and narrow it all down.. but.. I plan on making this an on-going 'mini-blog' on my college experience.. so I suppose I'll start with my current stats.

- Currently going for a general Associates of Applied Science - Changing over this up-coming semester from Associates in Arts
- I've completed 1 year exactly (2 semesters) of comm. college
- GPA - around 3.75 currently
- Accepted into and working in the Honors Program of Lone Star Comm. College

I guess that's all for now. Any information you want to give me and tips would really help. My dad doesn't approve of my medical aspirations, so I have to do all of this on my own basically. Any help is appreciated help.

 

[juggernaut]

1. You do need a medical degree to become an anesthesiologist. You won't even get to consider your specialty until very late in your medical education or residency.

2. Go here to apply for funding FAFSA - Free Application for Federal Student Aid.

3. The cost of housing and tuition varies from state to state, start looking at the websites for the universities in your area you might be interested in attending.

4. Speak to an advisor at your CC about transfer credits. Many states have agreements between CCs and universities.

5. An A.S. should help set up the foundation for your bachelors degree, but again check with your current school.

6. The time does go incredibly fast...until your final term.

 

[kyuuei]

Oy. So, after all day of talking to VA reps that know nothing about the VA systems, etc. I've sorta figured out that Baylor School of Medicine is the college you go to after your take your MCAT.

.... and I still have no straight answers on what constitutes "pre-medical school college" stuff. All that I THOUGHT was good is totally out the window. I thought college worked like this: Assoc. Degree in arts or science depending on which career you want, then 2 more years of school for you BA in whatever field you want in, and then you go from there for specialty schools, Masters, etc.

This doesn't seem to always be the case though.. what's required for an associates degree at my community college isn't at all required at the university, and visa versa.

So far, the hardest thing about college is finding out the actual information you need to do what you want. Everything is based on where you want to go, which is retarded because if you don't know which schools offer what you need, you don't know where you want to go!

University of Houston and University of Houston Clearlake are two ENTIRELY different places.. I guess I get that, but you'd think to have the title of UofH they'd HAVE to have some sort of similar classes offered. It seems like Clear Lake has nothing to offer pre-med students.. and I don't know one way or the other for UofH main campus yet since the line is always busy.

I wish there was a "Wanna be a doctor of ANY sort? Here's information for you." pamphlet.

 

[juggernaut]

I have a dear friend who just got accepted at the University of Washington School of Medicine. I'm certain she has the information you're looking for, I'll check with her Monday and get back to you.

In the meantime, you should look at biochemistry programs for your undergrad. Anesthesiology is a, chemically, risky field so this would probably be your best bet for an undergrad major.

 

[kyuuei]

^ That would be wonderful! Please, sap any questions you can out of her!!

Since you end up picking your actual "what KIND of doctor are you gonna be" way later on in your education, I figured there were comprehensive programs.. Like a "BA in medicine" something that totally prepares you for medical school and the MCAT and stuff, and this doesn't at all seem to be the case! I thought you'd at least have a Bachelor's degree so your education up to the point of medical school wasn't at all useless. And then I didn't know the difference between Majors, Minors..

All of this stuff is just really confusing, and what I assumed to be one thing isn't at all what I thought it was in my head. And no college is at all useful unless you make the trip up there.

 

[juggernaut]

Well the friend I mentioned above did a double degree, with majors in biochemistry and anthropology and minors in public health and medical history & ethics. I know she did a third minor but I don't remember what it was in (...I want to say general biology). The most common majors for future physicians are biology (the easier route) and biochemistry or neurobiology (much harder and more competitive).

Do me a favor and send me a message on Sunday sometime so I don't forget to get the info for you.

 

[Qre:us]

Oy. So, after all day of talking to VA reps that know nothing about the VA systems, etc. I've sorta figured out that Baylor School of Medicine is the college you go to after your take your MCAT.

.... and I still have no straight answers on what constitutes "pre-medical school college" stuff. All that I THOUGHT was good is totally out the window. I thought college worked like this: Assoc. Degree in arts or science depending on which career you want, then 2 more years of school for you BA in whatever field you want in, and then you go from there for specialty schools, Masters, etc.

This doesn't seem to always be the case though.. what's required for an associates degree at my community college isn't at all required at the university, and visa versa.

So far, the hardest thing about college is finding out the actual information you need to do what you want. Everything is based on where you want to go, which is retarded because if you don't know which schools offer what you need, you don't know where you want to go!

University of Houston and University of Houston Clearlake are two ENTIRELY different places.. I guess I get that, but you'd think to have the title of UofH they'd HAVE to have some sort of similar classes offered. It seems like Clear Lake has nothing to offer pre-med students.. and I don't know one way or the other for UofH main campus yet since the line is always busy.

I wish there was a "Wanna be a doctor of ANY sort? Here's information for you." pamphlet.

Okay, I don't know what exactly 'pre-med' means in the States, but, my friends who are in Med school in the States, it just looked like an equivalent B.Sc. undergraduate program.

You will need some basic pre-requisite courses for most medschool, and in this way, 'pre-med' helps you because they already have those as their required courses for the curiculuum. Example, you will need, an English course, 2 Calc, 1st year, bio, chemistry, physics, organic chemistry (usually 2 full courses), have a few social science/humanities courses (to show you are rounded). After that, be smart and take EASY COURSES to get your GPA UP!!

So, no offense, but, juggernaut's suggestion:

In the meantime, you should look at biochemistry programs for your undergrad. Anesthesiology is a, chemically, risky field so this would probably be your best bet for an undergrad major.

Do not do, unless you are amazing at it. Biochem is not easy, and, if your main goal is med school, you are going to have to get real with yourself and abilities, and forget 'learning for learning's sake'....Preparing for med school is tactical. It's about GPA, mostly.

Two students applying, doesn't matter what their undergrad was, as long as they have the pre-requisites, it will come down to the higher GPA. Don't screw yourself over by taking hard courses to "prepare" yourself for medschool except for courses that are requirements. Med school will prepare you for medicine. You don't need to do it before and break your back and kill your chances.

Secondly, I would suggest really looking into how college courses transfer to universities. A lot of college courses are not, for whatever reason, considered equivalent.

So, you're gonna have to make some decisions, i.e., narrow down a few possible likely universities you'll want to transfer over to. Make appointments with them and ask how your college courses transfer. Otherwise, mentally prepare yourself to start from scratch in Uni.

Also, prep up your extra-curricular activities.

MCAT courses are offered to prepare for it once you're ready to sit (most write in the summer of 3rd year of undergrad)...there's no 'way' to prepare for MCAT through university courses, it's a test of 1st year bio, physics, math, and chemistry, essentially. Meaning, they assume that if you have those pre-requisites, you are ready for MCAT.

Contrary as it may be, you don't even need to take anatomy courses, etc, to be set for med school.

Best game plan: be prepared to start Uni from scratch. Get into an EASY undergrad program that offers a lot of electives, a good one is general life science. SPACE OUT the pre-requisite courses for med schools (one's mentioned above)....take what you find the hardest in summer school (summer school is easier...esp. for ORGO), and, learn of the 'easy' (bird) courses, and take those to fill your courses. Keep the GPA UP. Round up with a nice profile of extra-curricular interest (to make yourself look well-rounded)....volunteer here and there. Rock the MCAT. You've got good chances. Good luck!

 

[juggernaut]

Okay, I don't know what exactly 'pre-med' means in the States, but, my friends who are in Med school in the States, it just looked like an equivalent B.Sc. undergraduate program.

You will need some basic pre-requisite courses for most medschool, and in this way, 'pre-med' helps you because they already have those as their required courses for the curiculuum. Example, you will need, an English course, 2 Calc, 1st year, bio, chemistry, physics, organic chemistry (usually 2 full courses), have a few social science/humanities courses (to show you are rounded). After that, be smart and take EASY COURSES to get your GPA UP!!

So, no offense, but, juggernaut's suggestion:




Do not do, unless you are amazing at it. Biochem is not easy, and, if your main goal is med school, you are going to have to get real with yourself and abilities, and forget 'learning for learning's sake'....Preparing for med school is tactical. It's about GPA, mostly.

Two students applying, doesn't matter what their undergrad was, as long as they have the pre-requisites, it will come down to the higher GPA. Don't screw yourself over by taking hard courses to "prepare" yourself for medschool except for courses that are requirements. Med school will prepare you for medicine. You don't need to do it before and break your back and kill your chances.

Secondly, I would suggest really looking into how college courses transfer to universities. A lot of college courses are not, for whatever reason, considered equivalent.

So, you're gonna have to make some decisions, i.e., narrow down a few possible likely universities you'll want to transfer over to. Make appointments with them and ask how your college courses transfer. Otherwise, mentally prepare yourself to start from scratch in Uni.

Also, prep up your extra-curricular activities.

MCAT courses are offered to prepare for it once you're ready to sit (most write in the summer of 3rd year of undergrad)...there's no 'way' to prepare for MCAT through university courses, it's a test of 1st year bio, physics, math, and chemistry, essentially. Meaning, they assume that if you have those pre-requisites, you are ready for MCAT.

Contrary as it may be, you don't even need to take anatomy courses, etc, to be set for med school.

Best game plan: be prepared to start Uni from scratch. Get into an EASY undergrad program that offers a lot of electives, a good one is general life science. SPACE OUT the pre-requisite courses for med schools (one's mentioned above)....take what you find the hardest in summer school (summer school is easier...esp. for ORGO), and, learn of the 'easy' (bird) courses, and take those to fill your courses. Keep the GPA UP. Round up with a nice profile of extra-curricular interest (to make yourself look well-rounded)....volunteer here and there. Rock the MCAT. You've got good chances. Good luck!

Granted, if you're simply looking to get into any school that might take you the above suggestions are probably adequate. If, however, you care at all about getting into a reputable program I would be very hesitant to take some of these suggestions. Decent programs look at a great deal more than GPA, though that is important. Admissions committees know a flaky transcript when they get one. The gal I've been talking about here is Phi Beta Kappa at a "public ivy" with extensive work experience (in a hospital). Nevertheless, even with her 3.75 GPA and a 36 on the MCAT she got offers from only 3 of the 17 schools she applied to. It's not an easy thing to do. There are lots of kids with excellent GPAs from crappy schools with easy majors. Applications from those individuals get precisely the attention they deserve...very little. I, personally, would not risk taking the approach suggested above in this economy. Your competition is not what it was ten years ago. You will not last once you get to medical school even if you do get accepted if you don't prepare properly.

 

[Qre:us]

Granted, if you're simply looking to get into any school that might take you the above suggestions are probably adequate. If, however, you care at all about getting into a reputable program I would be very hesitant to take some of these suggestions. Decent programs look at a great deal more than GPA, though that is important. Admissions committees know a flaky transcript when they get one. The gal I've been talking about here is Phi Beta Kappa at a "public ivy" with extensive work experience (in a hospital). Nevertheless, even with her 3.75 GPA and a 36 on the MCAT she got offers from only 3 of the 17 schools she applied to. It's not an easy thing to do. There are lots of kids with excellent GPAs from crappy schools with easy majors. Applications from those individuals get precisely the attention they deserve...very little. I, personally, would not risk taking the approach suggested above in this economy. Your competition is not what it was ten years ago. You will not last once you get to medical school even if you do get accepted if you don't prepare properly.

The bolded, I also advised in that post that the person has to soup up their 'profile' through extra-curricular acitivities, experience, volunteering, etc. I didn't say it was just about the GPA, but it's foolhardy to think that GPA isn't one of the biggest, and main, cut-off. Btw, in USA, if you go to an out-of-state school, GPA gets increasingly more competitive, anything below a 3.8 isn't even gonna be glanced at. Most schools get thousands of applications. The first and easiest weeding out is by GPA and MCAT scores. They will NOT sort through the thousands of applicants looking for nuances in merit of a degree versus another, crappy school versus not, etc, etc. It's strictly: GPA minimum met, MCAT scores, acceptable range, check, all pre-requisite courses, check, in or out. Then, AND ONLY THEN, if you make it through that cut, comes looking at the other stuff, once you're in the narrow selected basket.

Hence, Juggernaut's advice is not realistic for most students...unless your aptitude is that great. It's quite idealistic to do it the 'right way', and only pays of for the minority percentage of the thousands that try this method (because they believe they can). I am not making any commentary on kyuuei's aptitudes, but, if she wants to play the competitive game, she has to evaluate *best option* with *feasible option*. Evaluate her potential realistically. And, not realize it too late when she's in fourth year from a biochemistry program with a so-so average versus still a B.S.c, but, Life Sciences with a stellar GPA. The rose-coloured glasses will slip fast.

But, one thing worthy of mention is crappy schools. That is true.

Otherwise, from what I've seen in my personal experience (I have about 7 friends in med school, and three are in the States - Columbia U, U of Florida, and, Pritzker, U of Chicago). Our friends and I have had many conversations about the bullshit factor of many med school applications.

Btw, these are all fairly recent, not 15 or so years ago, Columbia is gonna start her residency next year, U of F, 2nd year, and Pritzker is 2nd year as well.

Preparing yourself with biochemistry, etc, is not gonna do you an iota of good in medschool. It might help for the MCAT section for organic chemisty, but beyond that...nope. The only time I would advise anyone to prepare with a 'suitable' major in the hopes of medschool is because of two options:

(1) have an applicable/competitive degree if medschool does not work out, meaning having an undergrad in biochem will be greatly more advantageous than general life sciences as a degree if you don't get into med school, and ask, 'now what?'

(2) if you're aiming for a MD/PhD program, i.e., research.

Otherwise....it's idealism over practicality.

PS - I have a friend who's now doing her Psychiatry residency (but this is in Canada) who got into medschool with an undergraduate degree in English. Yup. It's a myth that you need to major in biology or chemistry in undergrad to get into medschool...only that you have the pre-requisites and show a well-rounded image through the other courses you choose, and that, it shows a convinction in a field of interest (whatever field that may be).

 

[juggernaut]

k, Kyuuei, forget everything I said.

 

[kyuuei]

^_^;; Lots of information ya'll are throwing at me there. I appreciate both sides of the coin.

I do agree in particular with spacing out required courses. One or two hard classes can get more attention than 4. I guess it really all comes down to knowing what transfers from my community college and what pre-requisties I need for medical school.

I want to get as much out of the way as I can through community college because of the commute to University (It's the University of Houston that I believe I will be going to for my BA. I don't think I will live on campus either.) so I don't have to worry about a crappy school or anything like that. I think it's a decent university.

I'll have to make a trip over to the school and talk to the people there for my information on the particular college and update this when I get it.

Juggernaut I would definitely appreciate any questions and answers from your friend!! Biochemistry does sound daunting.. but I say that about everything.

Qre: Thank you for your input and your side of the spectrum. From an objective standpoint, it's interesting to see both ways of looking at it all. My current extra-curriculars will involve 25 hours of volunteer work this summer, and my honors program.

I still have to find out more on that program as well.. They have an Honors college at UofH too so Ill have to check with them and find out what that means.

 

[ygolo]

My sister just finished med. school, and she did a "Pre. Med" program. Still, it seems like Qre:us is right.

You prbably already found this, but here is the official word:
AAMC: Considering a Career in Medicine: Getting into Medical School FAQ

Note where it mentions the "key factors":

The key factors affecting acceptance to medical school include the following:

• Successful completion of required undergraduate courses
• Grade point average
• Performance on the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT)
• Extracurricular activities—especially those reflecting public or health-related service, volunteer work, and other evidence of your initiative
• Letters of recommendation from undergraduate health professions advisors and faculty members as well as physicians and other members of the health professions, community leaders, and other individuals who have employed you or supervised your volunteer experience
• Interviews with medical school admissions committees. Unlike colleges, which hold interviews early in the application process, medical schools arrange them near the end. As they narrow their selection of candidates, most medical schools invite the most promising applicants to interview with faculty and other members of the admissions committee.

So in addition to what Qre:us mentioned, getting to know some faculty members well will be important. Don't underestimate the power of Letters of Recomendation after you've met the cut-offs.

 

[kyuuei]

^ If we ever attend the same meet-up, I promise you you're going to be mad at me from my tackling and glomping all over you in joy for this much information Thank you soo much!!

at least I know that UofH won't be a total waste of time. I was surfing on a studentdoctor forum that was advising some dude to stay at UofH for pre-med stuff, which means they HAVE to have a pre-med program. I'm not looking forward to outstanding tuition costs or commutes, but eh. I'll live. I'll check them out and set up an appointment with the advising counselor for next monday and try not to get lost on such a huge campus.

 

[Randomnity]

What everyone else says, and especially get ready for a LOT of work, starting in undergrad and never ending until you retire. Everyone I know who is heading towards medicine is a serious overachiever. This means not only an essentially perfect GPA and high MCAT scores to even be considered, but also hardcore volunteering and similar, to be "well-rounded", which is very important for the interviewing. If medicine is what you want though, go for it, because you'll probably only be able to get through the work if you love it.

Also, make plans in case you don't get into med school, just in case. It's very competitive, as I'm sure you know.

I'm not trying to be discouraging, I swear, just try to make sure your time in undergrad isn't wasted if you choose not to/can't pursue the medicine route after.

(bio grad, for what it's worth)

edit: we have a biomed (ie pre-med) program at my university, but I think it's a fairly rare program. all that's necessary is the pre-reqs, which you should be able to find out from the med school(s) of your choice.

 

[kyuuei]

^ Thanks Yeah, I will definitely get my BA in something before going to Med School so that my education wasn't totally for naught if I don't get in. A BA in a medical field, I could get a certificate in something like physical therapy, etc. or even go into Kinesiology.

My fall-back support will be my BA medical degree and a job in Kinesiology. I like to work out, and I'd love to share that with people, but the field wouldn't be as stable as a doctor's career.

I like to work hard, and I dunno about being a TOTAL overachiever, but when I want something I definitely strive for it. I'm not gonna lie, it's scary to think how competitive the field is...

I think it'll help to just take it all one step at a time. I'll worry about MCATs when they get here, and Medical school after that.. for now, I'll focus on good grades and getting the necessary courses knocked out and getting my BA.

 

[kyuuei]

So, taking into account the UofH's actual BA requirements for Chemistry and/or Biology/Biochemistry (it seems to be the same degree according to the website), I have the pre-med requirements for med school, and I realize that nearly everything on that degree plan can be taken at my community college. I would spend a maximum of 1 year at UofH. Perfect for me.

Problem? I don't know yet if I can get that 1 year to be Honors college or not. I don't know anything yet about honors programs, and how they're going to conflict with each other.. Honors people are the most stuck up people I've ever met. As far as how classes transfer and such.. you'd think someone else as an Honor would be recognized by another honor.. but NO Honors courses at some 'lame' community college are recognized as honors by University.

Anyways, currently, an AS would be 61 hours. I can transfer 66 hours to UofH toward a degree. I think it'd be like.. one semester out of my way to get an AS before going for my BA. I think I'll end up going for my AS afterall before looking at my BA. 2 years (or 4 semesters) of community college still, and then 1 year at UofH. It'll be a total of 4 years, which sounds about right since I've already got one year under my belt.

 

[kyuuei]

As posted in my journal, I have trigonometry for a summer class MTWTh for 6 weeks in the mornings. I thought it was a good set up because the early wake-up call means I'll have the afternoons off to work, and there's a 2 1/2 hour lag-time between Trigonometry and my next class.. so Trig homework can be done at the college after class everytime, and I can make use of the gym between classes.

There's an element of the unknown that I absolutely despise. This is especially true when it comes to school. The entire thing is one big anxiety attack for me, and I'm already feeling breathless thinking about trigonometry. I absolutely PANICKED for some reason in math class when they introduced Logs.. I'd never even HEARD of them before, and I can't help but worry that this class too will be full of things I don't quite comprehend and understand. I get worried that my abilities will not be enough to afford me the 4.0 I'm striving for.

I lose confidence, inside of myself, when I have to be graded or tested on something, or when I am competing. I worry about my abilities and my talents, and if everything I do and try for will still not be enough to do what I set out to do. The worst part is I don't know what to expect, so I realize that I can't even make a pseudo-plan to ease myself until I am in the class. EVEN worse yet is they haven't announced my teachers for these courses, any of them fall or summer, so I can't even check out ratemyprofessors.com to find out how they seem function.

Whew. Long rant for just "I hate summer school"

 

[chasingAJ]

So, I'm a senior and I've been doing this for 10 years (really long story). I didn't read everything (it's 3am I'm allowed) but I can give you a few pointers.

#1 Learn math... ffs the GRE is a monster if you don't have math... I can't imagine the MCAT.

#2 I'm in Texas (TWU!) and in our state as long as you do the full core at any community college, it transfers to any university. Period. Your AA or AS will become the total core for whichever university you choose. Most of them are state run here (UT, TWU, UNT, A&M, Sam Houston, S.F.A., etc.). Med school... Baylor. UT is good (Galveston for UTMB), but Baylor is growing the name and since it's private/for profit there is (according to those I know) more available (med school is expensive because med school equipment is expensive). On a nursing front (B.S. Nursing or even Nurse Practitioner) TWU has one of the best nursing programs there are (it's the Woman's school, they've been teaching nursing for eons).

#3 There are tons of new financial aid options available. If you go through nursing school (I wanted to but I faint at the sight of blood so I couldn't do it) there are special subsidized loans for nurses due to the shortage. Most colleges have an April 1st deadline for Fall Aid (I'd stick with community college for another year... I wish I had the $150 a class tuition back! *sigh*) but you can start applying now for the Spring or getting it figured out for '10-'11.

PM (or email cos I'm flakey) if you have questions... I'm a career student so I'm pretty good at this stuff.

 

[kyuuei]

^ We're both in Texas then ^_^ Awesome.

Thanks for the input, especially the part on Baylor since no one seems to know much about it when I inquire. If all goes well, my AS will be in my possession by the end of May 2010.

 

[kyuuei]

So, an update on my plan.

Fall semester I will have 5 classes, spring semester I will have 5 classes. Then, I will have my Associates in Science.

I'm deviating from my plan here for a while with it all. I want a good job, and I need one. I'm getting burned out too quickly from college work. So. My current plan is this:

Get a Surgical Tech certificate in a year's time. Work that job for a while, and during it work at schooling part time for a surgical assistant position. Experience, and a job. It's better than nothing for 8 more years. I can still work toward medical school, but it'll be slower. Economy and life makes plans change a lot. Oh well.