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Math phobia, why?

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
Are you afraid of crunching numbers, or symbols?

Are you intimidated when you see matrices or differential or integrals?

Are you intimidated by any sort of math? If so, why?

It seems like a lot of rather intelligent people are intimidated by mathematics. Some say they hate it, or it's boring, or that they are too lazy to understand it. But why?

What is weird is that people who claim to believe statistics are important often have little understanding of why the stats are meaningful in the way they are, and therefore miss apply them (because the hand-book approach is very lacking). The basic math behind statistic is simple, so why not take the time to learn it?

What is more strange still, is that people who claim to "love math" are often intimidated by the actual use of it. What's up with that? Why is that?

Is it a fear of making mistakes? Because we all make plenty of spelling a nd grammatical errors when writing, but that doesn't stop us from writing.

I would just like to know. Why the math phobia?
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
math is evil

funny-pictures-alien-kitten-GXm.jpg
 

YoursTruly

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Apr 26, 2009
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6
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INFp
I currently dislike my math class (hurrah Pre-Calculus) because it's being complicated and annoying. It usually upsets me when i can't figure it out and have to redo the problem several times with different tactics. Like in math we're currently doing identities, sin(x), tan(x), cos(x), etc. Certain things equal certain things of certain things, it's like... eek!

Math is everywhere... it's evil... lol.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
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6,072
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ENFP
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7w6
I love math but Ive forgotten most of the higher math I learned in college. Helping my kids with their homework is a blast and a half though :D
 

YoursTruly

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Apr 26, 2009
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^Why do you say this?

???

Math for me usually came easy before Pre-Calc came along. I suppose it's because of real and imagined and this=that. I try to understand it in a "how is this useful?" way rather than... "This makes sense." My dad always tells me not to understand it, and just do it... i'm trying, i have a B in the class... but i hate how i don't find use for the math problems outside of class.

Hope that makes sense...
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
for me, it's like asking why i don't blow myself. it hurts my back.

the negative attitude is just a response to a negative society that does not allow people to have their personal selection of lines of intelligence and leave it at that. i understand, that they tried to teach me math, but why did they have to give me grades? it's the same with sports....

math is as evil as the local school system.

i am relatively confident that, if i went to school today (15 years later) i could be as good at math as those who liked it back then. because by now, my left hand is about as good, as their right hand used to be. (and my right hand is god :p )

but today, i am even more driven and not that interested in games without purpose (in the context of my live). so i won't go to school again. i would rather learn another language. or learn memory tricks.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
i have heard that some intuitives or autists or savants understand math in a way that is very different from the pseudo visual way that is taught in school, where you have numbers on papers and deal with them according to their position on the paper. i am curious and have a little tiny bit of hope that i might stumble on such an intuitive approach some day. i would like to play with the Chinese machines some day. i have tried to play around with visualizations of numbers. sort of find my personal number synesthesia. just to see, if my associations bring up numbers, that might relate to the previous ones. i have tried to see, if i can find a connection. an operator. no success so far. i might try again in a few months. i just have a tight schedule. *g* i need to think about my own stuff, you know.

i know (do I?) that mental arithmetic is a different topic from "math" .... i don't really even know what the latter is. i guess the most complicated thing that i understand is the "rule of three". so i can do it somewhat intuitively.
i might remember how to divide a big number, but that's no real understanding, just paper/number pushing work.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
???

Math for me usually came easy before Pre-Calc came along. I suppose it's because of real and imagined and this=that. I try to understand it in a "how is this useful?" way rather than... "This makes sense." My dad always tells me not to understand it, and just do it... i'm trying, i have a B in the class... but i hate how i don't find use for the math problems outside of class.

Hope that makes sense...

Frankly, I think your dad gave you horrible advice about math.

You should be thinking about how it is useful. The answers you come up with are limited only by your imagination.

Mathematics has proven to be the most fruitful human endeavor in all of history. It is absolutely the most useful field of study. Our advances in all the sciences would not have been possible without it. The latests advances in engineering would most definitely be impossible without differential equations alone.

math is as evil as the local school system.

Then so is any subject you disliked as a kid. Don't blame math itself.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Are you afraid of crunching numbers, or symbols?

Are you intimidated when you see matrices or differential or integrals?

Are you intimidated by any sort of math? If so, why?

It seems like a lot of rather intelligent people are intimidated by mathematics. Some say they hate it, or it's boring, or that they are too lazy to understand it. But why?

What is weird is that people who claim to believe statistics are important often have little understanding of why the stats are meaningful in the way they are, and therefore miss apply them (because the hand-book approach is very lacking). The basic math behind statistic is simple, so why not take the time to learn it?

What is more strange still, is that people who claim to "love math" are often intimidated by the actual use of it. What's up with that? Why is that?

Is it a fear of making mistakes? Because we all make plenty of spelling a nd grammatical errors when writing, but that doesn't stop us from writing.

I would just like to know. Why the math phobia?

I'm not sure if you could consider me an intelligent person, but I'm somewhat afraid of math. I think it's mostly because of my math teacher early on. She gave me a problem that was accidentally written 3-6 or something, and I answered 0-3. She insisted that there were no numbers less than zero or something, and that convinced me for a long time that math didn't make any sense.

Later on, in some (but not all) Algebra classes, I was frustrated because I was expected to "show my work," and find the answer in a particular way, when I saw several ways I could find the answer, and often tended to find the answer in a way that wasn't easy to show in a step-by-step manner. This frustrated me because I couldn't understand why this particular method and showing my work was so important.

So basically... I don't like math because the people who teach it always ask me to do it in ways that don't make any sense to me. They don't explain why I'm doing anything, they just say that this is how you do it. And I'm not very good at understanding the how without the why. I tend to botch it badly or follow it blindly, never seeing its connection to anything else when it's presented that way.
 

Wiley45

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Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
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INFP
I appreciate the value of math, and admire those who are good at it. For me, the reason I am "scared" of math is that my brain just doesn't want to work in the way I need it to when it comes to mathematics.

I have to literally work four times as hard at math. It just doesn't come naturally to me. I have to hear the most basic of concepts taught over and over before I really get them. We did some work with logic in one of our math classes. If we used letters (if P then Q, etc.), I was completely lost. If I asked the teacher to give me a sample sentence instead, I instantly understood. When I see numbers or letters, I just don't compute well, whereas a sentence or a word translates better in my brain. (I'm sure there is better terminology for this, but it's my simple way of explaining!)

I've passed all my math classes by taking extremely detailed notes. With the exception of one class where I had an amazing and patient teacher and actually learned, I have passed all my math classes by memorizing steps and sample problems from my notes. I cannot tell you why I am doing what I'm doing or why it works. I just memorize it, plug in the new numbers on quizzes and tests, pass my classes, and never look back.

I am taking statistics right now, and it's (hopefully) the last math class I ever have to take. I do appreciate math, but at the same time, I stay as far away from it as I can, because I'm bad at it, and I find it incredibly difficult. Who wants to sit around feeling stupid and banging her head on the table for hours? Not me...
 

Cenomite

Systematic chaos
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Nov 30, 2008
Messages
623
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ENTP
I actually like Math, but I always get ridiculous amounts of points off for being careless and not paying attention to detail.

The theory of math fascinates me, actually -doing- math doesn't.

That being said, I'm not afraid of Math. The complicated problems you get in class just test your problem solving / application ability. No problem is really harder than another, you just have to see how to turn it into a series of simpler problems. For people that can't do this well, I can understand why Math would be intimidating.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
I'm not sure if you could consider me an intelligent person, but I'm somewhat afraid of math. I think it's mostly because of my math teacher early on. She gave me a problem that was accidentally written 3-6 or something, and I answered 0-3. She insisted that there were no numbers less than zero or something, and that convinced me for a long time that math didn't make any sense.

Later on, in some (but not all) Algebra classes, I was frustrated because I was expected to "show my work," and find the answer in a particular way, when I saw several ways I could find the answer, and often tended to find the answer in a way that wasn't easy to show in a step-by-step manner. This frustrated me because I couldn't understand why this particular method and showing my work was so important.

So basically... I don't like math because the people who teach it always ask me to do it in ways that don't make any sense to me. They don't explain why I'm doing anything, they just say that this is how you do it. And I'm not very good at understanding the how without the why. I tend to botch it badly or follow it blindly, never seeing its connection to anything else when it's presented that way.

These are some common problems. I hate the way math is taught in so many schools (often by teachers who are math phobic, themselves).

It's horrible that your teacher told you that there are no numbers below 0.

Teachers should be encouraging multiple approaches to problems, especially the approaches that give answers directly without a lot of steps.

If that skill were nurtured, your quantitative reasoning skills would be greatly enhanced. How do you think people get those 800s on the Math SATs and GREs?-- certainly not by cranking through each problem in the "approved" manner (don't have time), but by simply noticing which answer is correct.

I appreciate the value of math, and admire those who are good at it. For me, the reason I am "scared" of math is that my brain just doesn't want to work in the way I need it to when it comes to mathematics.

I have to literally work four times as hard at math. It just doesn't come naturally to me. I have to hear the most basic of concepts taught over and over before I really get them. We did some work with logic in one of our math classes. If we used letters (if P then Q, etc.), I was completely lost. If I asked the teacher to give me a sample sentence instead, I instantly understood. When I see numbers or letters, I just don't compute well, whereas a sentence or a word translates better in my brain. (I'm sure there is better terminology for this, but it's my simple way of explaining!)

This is very common. That is why so few people get the Wason Card Problem correct but could answer the analogous problem about drinking age, and alcoholic beverages without ever taking a logic lesson.

Mathematics is essentially a systematic way of using analogy to extrapolate what is known into realms of the unknown. We have great success at using this faculty, once trained. Often, it is synonymous with "reasoning." It is in-fact the most successful of human faculties in finding out the truth--more so than empiricism, and the "scientific method" even.

I've passed all my math classes by taking extremely detailed notes. With the exception of one class where I had an amazing and patient teacher and actually learned, I have passed all my math classes by memorizing steps and sample problems from my notes. I cannot tell you why I am doing what I'm doing or why it works. I just memorize it, plug in the new numbers on quizzes and tests, pass my classes, and never look back.

It's unfortunate that so many people get into this mode. Imagine if we had similar reservations about being perfect in grammar and spelling before we wrote anything. We would miss out on learning a large part of the process that has absolutely nothing to do with being "correct."

I am taking statistics right now, and it's (hopefully) the last math class I ever have to take. I do appreciate math, but at the same time, I stay as far away from it as I can, because I'm bad at it, and I find it incredibly difficult. Who wants to sit around feeling stupid and banging her head on the table for hours? Not me...

Also understandable.

But I think in the the not too distant future, not understanding statistics will be similar to being "computer illiterate."

It will put you at a disadvantage.

We'll have so much "data" thrown at us, that being willfully ignorant of its meaning would either put us in a possition to distrust all of it, or trust all of it unconditionally.

Neither of these positions is particularly favorable.

I actually like Math, but I always get ridiculous amounts of points off for being careless and not paying attention to detail.

The theory of math fascinates me, actually -doing- math doesn't.

That being said, I'm not afraid of Math. The complicated problems you get in class just test your problem solving / application ability. No problem is really harder than another, you just have to see how to turn it into a series of simpler problems. For people that can't do this well, I can understand why Math would be intimidating.

I make plenty of stupid mistakes myself, but this is where having mulitple ways to solve the same problem helps. It is hard to solve a problem in two different ways and be wrong in the same way. Both approaches could be wrong, or perhaps share the same wrong assumption. But the more ways you can approach a problem and get the same answer, the more confident you can be of its correctness (again checking for shared assumptions).
 

Wiley45

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Mar 3, 2009
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INFP
It's unfortunate that so many people get into this mode. Imagine if we had similar reservations about being perfect in grammar and spelling before we wrote anything. We would miss out on learning a large part of the process that has absolutely nothing to do with being "correct."

I guess I could see what you are saying in terms of grammar, since many people find it difficult and complicated. The problem for me is if I don't have a patient teacher or a teacher who can explain well, the class moves along too fast. If I don't want to fail, I have to use whatever means I can to remember enough to pass the course. That's why I really appreciated the one teacher who took his time explaining things to me. I actually enjoyed that math class and still remember a lot of what I learned in it. It was a math class for people who aren't math majors, though, and in other classes I feel too obnoxious to make people wait while I ask eight billion questions. Plus, my questions are so basic and my grasp of math so limited, that I just feel like an idiot. It's difficult being surrounded by people who are good at math. I like it that my college split up some of the math courses for math majors and non math majors. I wish they did more of that, because I felt very comfortable in the class for non math majors.

But I think in the the not too distant future, not understanding statistics will be similar to being "computer illiterate."

It will put you at a disadvantage.

We'll have so much "data" thrown at us, that being willfully ignorant of its meaning would either put us in a possition to distrust all of it, or trust all of it unconditionally.

Neither of these positions is particularly favorable.

I think statistics is important, and I've learned a lot from it. I agree that it's important to have a basic understanding of these concepts. I understand why it's a requirement for most students, and agree that it should be. I'll just be glad to put it behind me and not have to work on it every day. I can write an A-quality 5 page paper in 45 minutes, but my math homework questions end up being hours of monotony and brain drain. (Sorry, I can tell you are passionate about math, and I am sure my less than enthusiastic attitude is a little obnoxious.) I really do appreciate math, to some extent. Promise. :)
 

ygolo

My termites win
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Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
For me, spelling is easy, so it's hard to make that comparison. I guess I could see what you are saying in terms of grammar, since many people find it difficult and complicated. The problem for me is if I don't have a patient teacher or a teacher who can explain well, the class moves along too fast. If I don't want to fail, I have to use whatever means I can to remember enough to pass the course. That's why I really appreciated the one teacher who took his time explaining things to me. I actually enjoyed that math class and still remember a lot of what I learned in it. It was a math class for people who aren't math majors, though, and in other classes I feel too obnoxious to make people wait while I ask eight billion questions. Plus, my questions are so basic and my grasp of math so limited, that I just feel like an idiot. Especially being surrounded by people who are good at math, this is very difficult. I like it that my college split up some of the math courses for math majors and non math majors. I wish they did more of that, because I felt very comfortable in the class for non math majors.

I suppose this would be true for any out-of-major classes?

I think statistics is important, and I've learned a lot from it. I agree that it's important to have a basic understanding of these concepts. I understand why it's a requirement for most students, and I agree that it should be. I'll just be glad to put it behind me and not have to work on it every day. :)

I know I am being a futurist here, but I think our childrens' generation will be as comfortable with statistics as we are with computers. They will be working with statistics every day, and not really be too concerned about it.

Some will understand its underpinnings which will give them a great advantage, just as deeper computer skills do for our generation.
 

Wiley45

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I suppose this would be true for any out-of-major classes?

Yes. I'm very talented at pointing out the obvious.

I know I am being a futurist here, but I think our childrens' generation will be as comfortable with statistics as we are with computers. They will be working with statistics every day, and not really be too concerned about it.

Some will understand its underpinnings which will give them a great advantage, just as deeper computer skills do for our generation.

Oh my. *faints at the thought of being as comfortable with statistics as computers* It would be nice, I suppose, if my son had an easier time with it than I did! I hope so.

P.S. - Are you a teacher? You sound suspiciously like a teacher.
 

simpleamazement

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Nov 23, 2008
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I used love math all the way through high school. I loved crunching numbers, geometry, seeing the practical ways we could use math.

But things got a little too theoretical / impractical for my tastes as soon as I was taking trigonometry. Prove this, tan, cos, tan, etc..ahh bleh!
 

placebo

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May 11, 2008
Messages
492
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INFP
I think for me it just seems too abstracted, out of my league, and unapplicable to my regular life for me to adore it--it gives me too much grief in terms of grades, even if I do appreciate it as a concept, I can't see it's use for me personally and it just causes me a lot of anxiety and strenuous thinking. When I'm trying to solve double integrals, find limits, or do implicit differentiation, all the while I'm just wondering WHHHHYYY AM I DOOOING THIS.
 
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