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  1. #81
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Is this your way of saying there are no newstories to link to where a 16 year old boy had consensual sex with a 15 year old girl and then was sentenced to 26 years in jail?

    You said previously there were many cases just like this. I saw many listed for 30-40 year olds with 14-16 year olds, none for 16 year olds with 15 year olds.
    No, just that I'd rather argue about it than actually find any. I was generalizing. I've read newspaper stories and so on, so I know that it's happened, but it's not worth the effort to me to prove it to you. Has there been a case where the sentence was exactly 26 years and the ages were precisely 15 and 16? I don't know; I don't remember all the exact details of the stories I've read, nor do I care enough to find out. That wasn't really the point.

    Although, to be fair, Trinity is right that it probably doesn't happen as often as I made it sound. I checked out these "Romeo and Juliet" laws a little bit and they seem to do a reasonable job of preventing this crap, in a fair number of cases. (Thanks, Trin.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity
    Your suggestion that the law considers them the same is ludicrous.
    While the average sentences may be different, my main problem is with the word "rape" being applied to situations where no forced coercion happened. This really gives people the wrong idea and unfairly brands someone for life with a label that he doesn't necessarily deserve.


    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Again I ask: how is this power?

    What you, sw and others are saying is basically, women (I would qualify women in progressive democracies) have some say over who they have sex with. So that if they don't want to whore around with everyone, they don't have to.

    Whoop-de-doop.


    Power, in the sense of having something someone wants? That's like saying a gazelle has power because a lion wants to eat her.
    What we're saying is that women, for biological reasons, are the ones who make the decision for a sexual encounter to happen, in a large majority of cases. That's all. Nobody is claiming that this can or should somehow be changed; it's just a statement of fact, and it IS a form of power.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #82
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You said previously there were many cases just like this. I saw many listed for 30-40 year olds with 14-16 year olds, none for 16 year olds with 15 year olds.
    It's very very rare to go for a conviction for these things, and they get an excessive amount of media attention, leaving the impression it happens more than it seems. Most of those cases are from parents pushing the issue rather than accepting their kids are sexual beings.

    Having said that, there are some pretty strange cases and a lot of ruined lives on the sex-offenders list that would fall close to what SW is saying. That, and plain stupid judgments.

    FWIW, the majority of females would of had sex with an 'adult' (it is not "rare", it's actually more common not), and the mean age gap is 6 years. Lots more information here.

  3. #83
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Again I ask: how is this power?

    What you, sw and others are saying is basically, women (I would qualify women in progressive democracies) have some say over who they have sex with. So that if they don't want to whore around with everyone, they don't have to.

    Whoop-de-doop.


    Power, in the sense of having something someone wants? That's like saying a gazelle has power because a lion wants to eat her.
    Well, it's entirely possible you and I have different ideas of what constitutes 'power' but I think this power, that women have, is huge. I mean, almost-impossible-to-overstate huge. The difference between the gazelle and a human woman is the gazelle isn't choosing whether or not to be eaten. A human women IS deciding - and she's deciding, again in a cold Darwinian sense, whether or not a human male will be allowed to reproduce/pass on his genes, which is the sole aim of existence (again, in a Darwinian sense).

    The very fact that, throughout history, in the vast majority of cultures, there have been multiple laws/social rules etc. spring up to control women's sexuality is, imo, a powerful testament to the existence of said power.

    Ima quote Paglia here, because I think this is the stone cold truth on the issue:

    All men - even … Jesus himself - began as flecks of tissue inside a woman’s womb. Every boy must stagger out of the shadow of a mother goddess, whom he never fully escapes….Women have it. Men want it. What is it? The secret of life…
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  4. #84
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    Well, it's entirely possible you and I have different ideas of what constitutes 'power' but I think this power, that women have, is huge. I mean, almost-impossible-to-overstate huge. The difference between the gazelle and a human woman is the gazelle isn't choosing whether or not to be eaten. A human women IS deciding - and she's deciding, again in a cold Darwinian sense, whether or not a human male will be allowed to reproduce/pass on his genes, which is the sole aim of existence (again, in a Darwinian sense).

    The very fact that, throughout history, in the vast majority of cultures, there have been multiple laws/social rules etc. spring up to control women's sexuality is, imo, a powerful testament to the existence of said power.

    Ima quote Paglia here, because I think this is the stone cold truth on the issue:
    Phooey! That's just biology. The contraceptive pill is power.

    The lion doesn't choose to be hungry either. Or choose the instincts that drive it to hunt and kill.

    One doesn't decide in a 'cold Darwinian sense'. The Selfish Gene makes the decision. We're all just pawns in this game.

    Women don't have power. Hormones have power to control behaviour.
    Alter the hormones, alter the behaviour.
    That's not power. That's not control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    The contraceptive pill is power.
    Deceptive power that is.

  6. #86
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Women don't have power.
    power: possession of controlling influence;
    one possessing or exercising power or influence or authority;


    Yes... yes they do. Men are pretty easy to influence through even a hint of sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Deceptive power that is.
    Well, it's pretty powerful. Control over the outcome increases the freedom to use. But I agree, it's deceptive in that it floods the market with "less-value sex" (just due to scarcity).

    The real power there isn't in women "over" men... it just gives control over themselves. I'd still rank that very high in terms of an effect.

  7. #87
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    power: possession of controlling influence;
    one possessing or exercising power or influence or authority;


    Yes... yes they do. Men are pretty easy to influence through even a hint of sex.
    Nope. Men are controlled by their instincts, not by women. (This is why men should never be allowed to be in positions of power ).
    Some women may use their knowledge of that weakness to manipulate favourable circumstances for themselves. That's another matter.
    And most women are just as weak when it comes to men so, the point is moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The real power there isn't in women "over" men... it just gives control over themselves. I'd still rank that very high in terms of an effect.
    That was my point. I guess that's the only power I'm interested in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #88
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Phooey! That's just biology.
    Bluemonday, I respectfully but completely disagree with you. Which is OK. I know you disagree with me, too. I think biology is HUUUUUGE.

    As for working with men vs women, I have to say, I've known a healthy number of bitchy, gossipy men in my time, and not all of them were gay (not even most, actually).
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  9. #89
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No, just that I'd rather argue about it than actually find any. I was generalizing. I've read newspaper stories and so on, so I know that it's happened, but it's not worth the effort to me to prove it to you. Has there been a case where the sentence was exactly 26 years and the ages were precisely 15 and 16? I don't know; I don't remember all the exact details of the stories I've read, nor do I care enough to find out. That wasn't really the point.

    Although, to be fair, Trinity is right that it probably doesn't happen as often as I made it sound. I checked out these "Romeo and Juliet" laws a little bit and they seem to do a reasonable job of preventing this crap, in a fair number of cases. (Thanks, Trin.)
    You weren't generalizing, you were exagerating and not helping your credibility. And yes, I know the Romeo and Juliet laws, remember I brought them up in the other thread, that's why I don't believe there's this huge rash of 16 year old boys being sentenced to 26 years in jail for consensual sex with their 15 year old girfriends.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Re: Contraceptive Pills

    Birth Control is a sort of power, not just for women but for everyone who choses to use it. For married people it is priceless for spacing children, limiting family size to suit economic means. Just like with guns, there's a good side and a bad side to its use.

  10. #90
    Summer laintpe's Avatar
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    job one... mostly females... lots of talking... not enjoyable

    job two... mostly males.... silence (is golden).... enjoyable


    not exactly proof or evidence of any sort, but the thought of an entirely female anything makes me twitch.
    [B]Ti=Ne>Ni>Fe>Te=Fi>Si>Se

    LII

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap
    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap
    Ideally I'll be the woman

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