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  1. #61
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Another conservative-trying-to-circle-the-wagons-for-fear-of-the-progress-of-history---thread.


    Ignored. Next.

  2. #62
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Thanks for the clue

    And no. Actually it is rape, I'm not making this up either, I promise, it's the law

    Giving consent does not mean someone can't be raped and so you know, rape does not need to involve a physical struggle. The law presumes that statutory rape involves coercion and states that the minor is not in a position to give consent, hence rape.
    I'm not arguing what the law is, just what I think it should be. Obviously statutory rape is classified legally as rape and therefore considered rape by the justice system; my point was that I don't think it's the same thing and shouldn't be classified as such.

    I'm sure you'll disagree, but giving consent absolutely does mean someone cannot be raped. That's the thing about rape--it's forced. I'm not saying statutory rape should be legal, just that it should be separated from the word "rape" because it results in fundamentally innocent people (just look up one of the myriad stories of a 16 year old boy given a 26 year prison sentence for having totally consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend and daddy getting pissed) being drastically over-punished and having to register as sex offenders for their entire lives. It's idiotic.

    And when people hear that you're a "rapist", they don't much care if the word "statutory" is attached to it--your personal image and professional life are already ruined, even if the charges end up being dropped. This shit really does happen to a lot of people who don't deserve it at all, and it's incredibly depressing. Am I the only one who thinks it's something different when the girl comes to court and says "No, I wanted to have sex with him, please don't do this to him" vs. "Yes, he grabbed me off the street, held me down and forced me into something I never wanted at all"?

    How can you possibly assert that these are two situations should be considered equivalent?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #63
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm not arguing what the law is, just what I think it should be. Obviously statutory rape is classified legally as rape and therefore considered rape by the justice system; my point was that I don't think it's the same thing and shouldn't be classified as such.

    I'm sure you'll disagree, but giving consent absolutely does mean someone cannot be raped. That's the thing about rape--it's forced. I'm not saying statutory rape should be legal, just that it should be separated from the word "rape" because it results in fundamentally innocent people (just look up one of the myriad stories of a 16 year old boy given a 26 year prison sentence for having totally consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend and daddy getting pissed) being drastically over-punished and having to register as sex offenders. It's idiotic.

    And when people hear that you're a "rapist", they don't much care if the word "statutory" is attached to it--your personal image and professional life are already ruined, even if the charges end up being dropped. This shit really does happen to a lot of people who don't deserve it at all, and it's incredibly depressing. Am I the only one who thinks it's something different when the girl comes to court and says "No, I wanted to have sex with him, please don't do this to him" vs. "Yes, he grabbed me off the street, held me down and forced me into something I never wanted at all"?

    How can you possibly assert that these are two situations should be considered equivalent?
    Are you arguing that sex with children should be allowed, or that it should just be called something else?

  4. #64
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Are you arguing that sex with children should be allowed, or that it should just be called something else?
    I said about five times that it should only be classified differently and given a lesser punishment, not legalized...it also should depend heavily on the victim's perspective on the case. I think you can bring the victim to court, bring in her doctor, paint an accurate picture of whether or not this particular person is old/mature enough to understand what she was doing. People mature at dramatically different rates; there are 50 year old mentally retarded people who are still cognitively too young to understand the implications of sex. That doesn't mean we need to legally force them to abstain for life.

    I don't advocate sex with young children by any means, but there's a real difference between some asshole raping a 6 year old, and a 16 year old boy having consensual sex with his 15 year old high school girlfriend. The former is obviously waaaaay too young to have any concept of what's going on and should be totally protected by the law; the latter is much more of a gray area, because lots of people ARE sexually mature and capable of choosing sex by age 15.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #65
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I said about five times that it should only be classified differently and given a lesser punishment, not legalized...
    Ok, sorry - didn't read through the whole thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I don't advocate sex with young children by any means, but there's a real difference between some asshole raping a 6 year old, and a 16 year old boy having consensual sex with his 15 year old high school girlfriend.
    Agreed.

  6. #66
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    (just look up one of the myriad stories of a 16 year old boy given a 26 year prison sentence for having totally consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend and daddy getting pissed) being drastically over-punished and having to register as sex offenders for their entire lives. It's idiotic.
    Please provide the link to the exact story where a 16 year old has been sentenced to prison for 26 years for having consensual sex with a 15 year old. It needs to be from a real news source. It's your assertion and I don't have the time to crawl the web looking, putting the terms in Google brought up nothing like you're saying here.

    If he's 17 and she's 14, that won't be the same thing as you've asserted btw.

  7. #67
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Granted women do bear the greater biological risk, and so it makes biological sense that they get the advantage of being more selective.

    It just sucks for men is all!
    Quote Originally Posted by chegra View Post
    Well, yes the woman definitely control the sex scene in the west.

    But, I think that they bare a greater risk from any single sexual transaction.

    1. A Man doesn't lose social value when he has sex, it increases. If a woman is seen as too easy(by you txt her for sex), she risk being call a slut.
    And yet women are in control? Who defines this system of 'valuation'?

    Answer this, sw, would you want your SO to be the type of woman who responds with open legs to such a txt msg?

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    It was really just a summation of sexual economics, and the fact that women control it. Biological supply and demand is a good explanation for it, but it doesn't make the point any less valid. How exactly is it nonsense?
    You said:
    But society doesn't do a damn thing to stop women from using sex as power, which they do, constantly, in nearly every avenue of social interaction.
    But you fail to illustrate your point. How exactly, are women wielding this sexual power? Why are they not more economically or politically powerful if your assertion is correct?

    Ignoring that, let's accept your premise.
    Women make up ~50% of "society". What reason would they have for doing anything about it? The other 50% can take back the "power" any time they want by keeping it zipped up. Therefore, the solution is in your own hands! Quit bitching!
    Also, I can hardly see gender-driven "honor killings" being a significant issue in the US.....
    ....
    P.S.,

    Then again, apparently you didn't actually read the article you linked to, either. The girl is from a Turkish town called Batman.
    Excuse me for not buying into the notion that the US is the centre of the universe. Excuse me too for being so outraged that women are being brutally murdered in the 21st century (because they won't accept arranged marriages or because their husbands are not satisfied with them in some way) that the detail of her town's name coinciding with a comic book character completely passed me by!

    Way to miss the point, dude.

    But you're too busy worrying that you can't text up booty any time you feel like it to actually give a damn about real human rights abuses, eh?
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  8. #68
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    But society doesn't do a damn thing to stop women from using sex as power
    I know, right? Wtf? Women can just walk around being sexy and controlling men and it's LEGAL?! COVER THOSE WHORES UP!

    OK, above is kinda facetious but my opinion on this is basically that yeah, women do wield sexual power. This is no one's fault. Nature has ordained that men want it, and we decide who to give it to, in a general sense. I guess what I have to say to the men, regarding this issue is: deal. Just the way women have to deal with nature when it *doesn't* favour us.

    The above fact is also arguably a strong contributor to historical and current laws throughout the world that seek to control women's sexuality, very often at the expense of their human rights.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  9. #69
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    OK, above is kinda facetious but my opinion on this is basically that yeah, women do wield sexual power. This is no one's fault. Nature has ordained that men want it, and we decide who to give it to, in a general sense. I guess what I have to say to the men, regarding this issue is: deal. Just the way women have to deal with nature when it *doesn't* favour us.

    The above fact is also arguably a strong contributor to historical and current laws throughout the world that seek to control women's sexuality, very often at the expense of their human rights.
    Didn't you just contradict yourself?

    Maybe I just have an odd conception of "power"....
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #70
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    We don't have those issues here, but women on our side are a minority and it's a software dev facility so it's a more "masculine" environment anyway. While I am self-expressive, I've taken care to make sure my appearance -- while feminine -- still earns me credibility in this environment, and all of the women here seem to be more "professional" in nature than the sort of goofy, catty female environment being described by some in this thread. The other side is more of the "accountant types," with a majority of female employees, and they definitely lean more in the catty/socializing direction. I enjoy the connection I share with women, but only to an extent -- as long as it's "normal." I don't like the political/social drama. Men are definitely more straightforward and easier to deal with; you just focus on the task at hand, work to accomplish the goal, and don't let it get too personal or crazy. Simple, right?

    I have a good friend in town who's one of just two males in a legal facility where everyone else is female, and the daily drama drives him crazy.
    I do think it depends on the type of job and working environment. There are definitely fields/sectors that draw a lot more of the gossipy women. I would NOT do well longterm in that sort of environment. I really hate office drama and tend to keep more to myself in an office environment. [Random somewhat-related aside: I definitely have more fun talking/joking with a group of intellectual, geeky guys, than discussing interior decorating, new purses, or the likes with women. *shudder*]

    However in tech/IT/science fields, it's not really an issue, and those types of personalities aren't nearly as prevalent. Certainly don't have the drama and cattiness.
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