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  1. #51
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    and she said he wouldn't have even made it through residency if he was that big of an asshole (and didn't hide it).
    That's partly my point, we miss out on brilliance and great results just because that person doesn't fit the typical mould.

    When it comes to healthcare, I think I have a very results based mindset (there is no point having a friendly doctor if he can't help improve your health, you might as well see a counselor) but I can understand how others would want more than that or something different.

  2. #52
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    So we agree then?
    For the most part. I'm mostly talking about the attitude "I need to be authentic" as something I wouldn't want. Pigtails... that's small, personal... but the attitude is a definite negative for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    What about House?
    Unfortunately, reality doesn't reflect TV very well...

  3. #53
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2bforgot10 View Post
    (I'm going to dig deep here); I'd like to get to the real core of this. Please, especially INTJ's and those who have difficulty with allowing themselves to be vulnerable, share your vulnerable, beautiful experiences... open your hearts for a second and just let out what's inside.
    Whut? Okay.

    My uncle, a possible NTJ and unpleasant prick of a man, rode motorcycles when he was young, sported a leather jacket, and had long hair. Then somehow or other, got a tech job in a telecommunications company. After a step up the ladder into management he became, overnight, Mr Well Groomed Pinstripe Suit. He said he loved his bike and his jacket, but he couldn't spare the extra ten minutes he'd need in every meeting making the clients get over their first impressions.

    So to offset the girlishness of the pig tails, consider an aggressive visible tattoo. Think balanced first impression.

    My own beautiful experience came to pass in Thailand. There's a dress code for any and all teachers there, so while doing some training I, for the first time in my life, wore pleated slacks, white shirt, and a tie. I have long since discarded all three, but not lost the habit of shaving every day. That part of personal presentation I am pleased to maintain.

    It's beautiful, and I don't know why.

  4. #54
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't get the obsession some people have with 'self-expression'. What's going to happen if you adhere to a dress code? Is it going to change your personality?

    You can dress the way you want to in your free time...if you want to get paid, you have to pay attention to the image you're protraying, especially in a field like therapy. Wearing pants with holes in them, for instance, would send the message to many most people that you don't care enough about the job (and by association, about them) to dress appropriately.

    also +1 to all this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    Legally? Sure, have at it. But anyone who does this in practice needs to be prepared for maybe not getting as many jobs as they would like to.

    If I go to a job interview, it means I want the job. If I want the job, I want to maximise my chances of getting the job. I'd take the pigtails out. Does this make me inauthentic? Not imo, it just means I'm willing to do what's necessary to get the job.

    If I'm the one giving the interview and someone shows up with holes in their pants and pigtails, they'd hurt their chances of getting the job. Especially if it's a short interview and I don't have much to go on.

    It's weird to me when people feel very strongly about stuff like...pigtails... and what they say about that person's 'being'. It's not about *you* - it's not about how authentic you feel. In your own house, on your own, it is. But at a workplace? No, that's about doing a job, not about expressing yourself.
    -end of thread-

  5. #55
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2bforgot10 View Post
    I'm writing to see what people think of self-expression in professional settings; in particular, the psychotherapy setting.

    I was in class the other day and we were talking about ethics, etc, and some of the students argued that psychotherapists should not have piercings, tattoos, etc.

    I, personally, have pigtails, which I actually think are very cute and they're "me" and I was discouraged by some of the students to wear these.

    I realize that if I have pig tails I may not be taken seriously by some people, but to be honest, I don't care--in the sense that it will not stop me from wearing pig tails. The pig tails are "me;" they're part of what makes me unique, and I will not change that for anyone! I want people to start looking beyond outer appearances and the only way I'm going to do that or make any social change in people's eyes is by starting with myself! If I'm going to be the example then I'm going to stick to it.

    I think that when people change their style they are giving into society's judgmentalness and stereotypes. I think they are letting society get the "best" of them. Why should we have to compromise our individuality? Why not all be authentic in expression? If we all continued to change our appearances/who we are, then we will never really know one another on any real, personal, intimate level.
    I am curious as to hear people's take on this.

    So the question... Should psychotherapists be allowed to exhibit themselves (fashion-wise) however they want?

    (I'm going to dig deep here); I'd like to get to the real core of this. Please, especially INTJ's and those who have difficulty with allowing themselves to be vulnerable, share your vulnerable, beautiful experiences... open your hearts for a second and just let out what's inside.

    Thank you.
    Okay, so it appears that you know... and perhaps even like... some INTJs in your life.
    So you know we like to point out inconsistencies, right?

    I mean, I know exactly how you feel. I hate that people judge us by our outward appearance. I don't think it's right, and I used to rebel against it when I was younger. When I was older, I went into business for myself and I learned how to dress and act in such a way as to be successful... "dress for success" as it were. One principle I learned was that the more you conform to the stereotypical image of what a "professional" should look like, the more (quantity) people are going to be able to relate to you. The more you stray away from the classic professional image to something more individualized, the less (quantity) people will be able to relate to you... generally speaking, of course.

    If you were going to be a counselor at a summer camp full of young people, I would think that pigtails and holey jeans would be perfect because your "look" would help the young people be able to relate to you. I think Jennifer was right when she said that it depends on your clientele, and who you're trying to relate to.

    The inconsistency I'd like to point out is that even though pigtails are "you", you posted 3 photos of yourself in your profile, and you don't have pigtails in any of the pictures. So, there are some times when you don't wear pigtails. You don't have to wear them all the time.

    I think the point is that if you're going to help people, I think it's probably somewhat important for them to feel comfortable in your presence, and the way you dress can affect how people feel about you and about what you say. I think the setting you work in and the clientele you work with somewhat dictates how professionally you need to present yourself.

    I had an INFP counselor who was self-employed. Her office was very INFP-ish. She dressed and acted INFP-ish, but I was comfortable with that. (I.e. it was not some sterile ISTJ environment.)

  6. #56
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I suspect that at the beginning of ones professional working life there's always a learning curve where one finds out if one likes ones job or doesn't. If one does, one tends to adapt. Being highly individual (relative to the normal standard of that workplace) takes energy, and after a while one keeps up this expression really only if they're dissatisfied with their job or the place or the people.

    Not2bforgot10, what's your feeling about your future career? Is it you?


    (Keep on truckin', soldier. Pig tails in the office will likely end up a non-issue. My real question to you is, the women's business suit: knee-length or thigh-high skirts? High heels or flats? Open-necked shirt with a push-up bra? Doctors with those lab coats... do they sometimes have nothing on underneath?)

  7. #57
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    You can dress the way you want to in your free time...if you want to get paid, you have to pay attention to the image you're protraying, especially in a field like therapy. Wearing pants with holes in them, for instance, would send the message to many most people that you don't care enough about the job (and by association, about them) to dress appropriately.
    But I'm sure you know that's bullshit. Now I want to become a corporate leader, just to start hiring ONLY people that show up with holes in their pants. Maybe they spent time doing something more productive rather than trying to see how their dress fits.

    I am filling a role. When I hire, I expect that person to fill the role.
    What? A role? Lol man. It's your life. It amazes me how sometimes people can have such widely different views of what is...reality.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #58
    Senior Member Rangler's Avatar
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    Screw that. Personal expression is looked down upon in business because the goals are suppose to come before the people. Also, business attire is like a sports jersey, it creates unity, which is exactly what you want to encourage when taking on large projects. Image counts. Anyone who tells you otherwise isn't in a position to hire people.
    R[a]ngl[e]r

  9. #59
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangler View Post
    Screw that. Personal expression is looked down upon in business because the goals are suppose to come before the people.
    True. But I think that this can be interpreted in various ways. One would be: who cares how one dresses, as long as he can get shit done well.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #60
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Well it is no wonder that the business world struggles so much with innovation, creativity and change, they are too busy maintaining their expected norms.

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