Handwriting & Cursive Fading?

[Eldanen]

I don't think anything that's being lost is significant enough to warrant holding on to it as a primary tool rather than an auxiliary/emergency one. The point of writing is to express language in a text format. We can still use different fonts, bold and italicized text, and change the color of our text on a computer, remember.

Handwriting makes sense as an art form or something ceremonial, but surely you must agree that it's impractical for everyday use.

Yes, we can change our fonts, etc. But those are still pre-packaged symbols. I know that graphology takes a lot of heat as a pseudo-science, but to me it's nearly common sense to assume that at least to some minor degree, a person's temperament is going to affect their muscle movements and then their handwriting. So, I surely disagree actually, that it's impractical for everyday use. It's not like anyone ever received an e-mail that they cherished for very long.

The problem with major emphasis on expedience is that it makes everything throw-away. And I know that it seems like a large leap of logic, but even the small things we do have a large impact on the manners in which we think. I think that handwriting as an art form, which you call ceremonial and impractical, can actually stimulate the brain to action and creativity in a way that keyboarding cannot. C'mon: with handwriting, you actually scribe the letter, and with keyboarding you push-a-friggin-button. To me it seems like it can be somewhat mind-numbing.

Side note: I've noticed before that when I did some rote work on paper, or perhaps some math, my typing speed actually increased for a short while. How odd.

If the lack of depth in today's youth is any evidence, I give it. It seems cliche to say so, but in many cases I've found it to be true. Especially in Stickam chatrooms. Jeez!

 

[placebo]

I have to say even as a student, though I use electronic forms of writing a lot, and a lot of notes are available on the computer, I still use handwriting everyday--it's far from being impractical for everday use. E.g. I actually find it impractical to carry around a computer to take notes in lectures. E.g. I also prefer physical journals over personal blogs. Leaving notes on stickies and writing messages down is also way easier than sending emails in many situations. Writing is still highly practical the way I see it.

 

[Sniffles]

I think you're romanticizing it too much because you grew up with it. Don't feel bad, a lot of people do that.

Im 25, I grew up with both computers and handwriting. It's a basic argument for a more integrated sense of life that's doesn't revolve around mere efficiency and practicality. Those are means not ends in themselves.

I'm just saying that it makes NO SENSE to do something in a slower way that takes more resources just because of the fear of what will be lost. Handwriting should be preserved as an art form, for ceremony, and for emergency situations, but I don't see any good reason to keep it as an everyday tool when it's no longer the best way.

Culture vs Civilization people, Culture vs Civilization.

 

[Athenian200]

I use handwriting everyday, especially at work, where we don't even have access to computers except for higher up business.

Would you still use handwriting everyday if this weren't the case?

Plus this is built on the false presupposition of the disconnect between art(aesthetics) and everyday life - which is a false premise of modernity. We can also add the semi-Spenglerian contrast between culture and civilization.

Okay, then... but a lot of people find typed text more aesthetically pleasing than written text, including myself. How do you account for that?

 

[Eldanen]

Im 25, I grew up with both computers and handwriting. It's a basic argument for a more integrated sense of life that's doesn't revolve around mere efficiency and practicality. Those are means not ends in themselves.



Culture vs Civilization people, Culture vs Civilization.

Could you go into a bit more depth on "Culture vs. Civilization" Peguy? I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that.

Oh, and Athenian, I commonly have issues with text generated on a computer screen. Either the resolution isn't high enough, or the program doesn't size the fonts like I want them, and there's no way to change them except choosing a pre-defined number of points. I suppose if you find them aesthetically pleasing, that's your thing.

 

[Sniffles]

Would you still use handwriting everyday if this weren't the case?

Yes.

Okay, then... but a lot of people find typed text more aesthetically pleasing than written text, including myself. How do you account for that?

Simple....they're fucking idiots!

 

[Athenian200]

Yes, we can change our fonts, etc. But those are still pre-packaged symbols. I know that graphology takes a lot of heat as a pseudo-science, but to me it's nearly common sense to assume that at least to some minor degree, a person's temperament is going to affect their muscle movements and then their handwriting. So, I surely disagree actually, that it's impractical for everyday use. It's not like anyone ever received an e-mail that they cherished for very long.

Not true. I've saved e-mails from years ago that I still occasionally pull up and read today. I even take special care to back up the ones that matter to me so that I don't lose them.

The problem with major emphasis on expedience is that it makes everything throw-away. And I know that it seems like a large leap of logic, but even the small things we do have a large impact on the manners in which we think. I think that handwriting as an art form, which you call ceremonial and impractical, can actually stimulate the brain to action and creativity in a way that keyboarding cannot. C'mon: with handwriting, you actually scribe the letter, and with keyboarding you push-a-friggin-button. To me it seems like it can be somewhat mind-numbing.

I don't understand that at all. You're making my head hurt. There's nothing in what you're saying that I can even... touch. It's all stuff I can't argue with, because it starts with assumptions that can't be proven or dispelled.

 

[Sniffles]

Could you go into a bit more depth on "Culture vs. Civilization" Peguy? I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that.

Culture revolves more around spirituality and aesthetics.

Civilization revolves more around practiciality and efficiency.

You need both, but sadly there's a great imbalance towards civilization at the expense of culture. We're more interested in kitsch then actual artwork.

Simple example: It maybe more practical or efficient to just get fast food for dinner rather than take the time and effort to cook a full course meal yourself; but which is more rewarding in the end?

 

[miss fortune]

They actually quit teaching cursive at my mom's school and teach keyboarding instead.

I can't say that I'm disappointed, as I quit writing cursive as soon as I could get away with it and have printed every since.

 

[Athenian200]

It was an article I read in the paper last week about the narrow window of opportunity each child has to learn certain basic communication skills. It mentioned that today's children are defficient in some areas of one-to-one communication because they have been interacting with machines to the detriment of their living skills.

What are you proposing?

It's not surprising to hear someone verbalize the thoughts that they are expendable but it is frightening. I do see the tendency toward your thoughts and attitude, Athenian. But I also see the social state of things these days and it doesn't look like the prevailing direction is for the positive.

Do you honestly... LIKE the alternative? Forcing people to value things "just because"?

 

[Silent Stars]

I happen to do both quite well, and I intend on teaching my [future] kid/s handwriting if the school they attend doesn't.

 

[Athenian200]

They actually quit teaching cursive at my mom's school and teach keyboarding instead.

I can't say that I'm disappointed, as I quit writing cursive as soon as I could get away with it and have printed every since.

You don't know how glad I am to hear someone say that. It's like a breath of fresh air... I was beginning to feel suffocated.

 

[Eldanen]

Culture revolves more around spirituality and aesthetics.

Civilization revolves more around practiciality and efficiency.

You need both, but sadly there's a great imbalance towards civilization at the expense of culture. We're more interested in kitsch then actual artwork.

Simple example: It maybe more practical or efficient to just get fast food for dinner rather than take the time and effort to cook a full course meal yourself; but which is more rewarding in the end?

Haha. Exactly my point. In my earlier posts, using your language, I believe I was arguing that culture to some degree sustained and built civilization; without it we'd all be goners.

The fast food example really nails the idea on the head though, I think. It's not only more rewarding in the end that it probably tastes better, but it's also healthier. A good way to burn calories would probably be to expend the energy to cook a full-blown meal every day. "I've been slaving over a hot stove all day long!" as the saying goes.

Oh, and Athenian, think of it this way: what I'm saying is that the act of scribing letters by hand engages more mental processing than punching keys. More mental stimulation and activity, and you have a better product in the end. Yes, it can be tested, I believe. Just hook someone up to a machine that measures brain activity and have them write something on paper. Then have them type something. I haven't read any research on the subject, but I think that it's easy to see without the research that it's true. Why? Just because the process of pushing a key is simpler than the process of writing a letter.

If you view the mind as a feedback loop, you see that the more you can stimulate the mind in output (through writing by hand), the more spontaneous generation of ideas you'll have.

I'm not really using the amount of words necessary to show my point, but I'm tired right now.

 

[DigitalMethod]

Well I think handwriting will always be. Maybe instead of paper though tablets of some sort?
Anyway I don't think one should question if the writing will be neat or not. Because what I've noticed is, people roughly either have good or bad handwriting from the time they learn it. That's a vast generalization - sure. But really I see good and bad handwriting much like I see art ability, you either have it... or you don't. You can practice and get better sure, and it's easier to master than mastering painting or what not, but still.

 

[miss fortune]

You don't know how glad I am to hear someone say that. It's like a breath of fresh air... I was beginning to feel suffocated.

I've never seen a point in having to learn to write TWICE (print and cursive) as opposed to once, when the first type of writing is signifigantly easier to read!

 

[Athenian200]

Haha. Exactly my point. In my earlier posts, using your language, I believe I was arguing that culture to some degree sustained and built civilization; without it we'd all be goners.

The fast food example really nails the idea on the head though, I think. It's not only more rewarding in the end that it probably tastes better, but it's also healthier. A good way to burn calories would probably be to expend the energy to cook a full-blown meal every day. "I've been slaving over a hot stove all day long!" as the saying goes.

Oh, and Athenian, think of it this way: what I'm saying is that the act of scribing letters by hand engages more mental processing than punching keys. More mental stimulation and activity, and you have a better product in the end. Yes, it can be tested, I believe. Just hook someone up to a machine that measures brain activity and have them write something on paper. Then have them type something. I haven't read any research on the subject, but I think that it's easy to see without the research that it's true. Why? Just because the process of pushing a key is simpler than the process of writing a letter.

Why does culture have to be based on things that are annoyingly slow and difficult and make no sense to me?

I mean, we still have culture. We still have museums and art galleries... art classes, music, libraries, and more. Why do THOSE specific things have to be so important? Why couldn't we just try to balance them by introducing more aesthetic or spiritual qualities into other areas of our lives? Like maybe giving people Rubix cubes, studying philosophy, crossword puzzles, or something like that to work with.

 

[Silent Stars]

I've never seen a point in having to learn to write TWICE (print and cursive) as opposed to once, when the first type of writing is signifigantly easier to read!

That would only be true if you suck at handwriting.

Why does culture have to be based on things that are annoyingly slow and difficult and make no sense to me?

Handwriting is actually faster and more efficient than printing once you are proficient enough at it.

 

[Athenian200]

Handwriting is actually faster and more efficient than printing once you are proficient enough at it.

And it's still not faster than typing. You're using the same argument I am, and then denying that it has any meaning? Sigh, I give up.

I guess all that matters is that some people like handwriting and think it teaches discipline and character or something. There's not much to be done for that. Sigh.

 

[Silent Stars]

Thanks for putting words into my mouth. I was only making a general statement.

 

[miss fortune]

That would only be true if you suck at handwriting.

I consistantly failed handwriting when I was a child- nothing like having the school invent something useless for you to learn so that they can fail you in it

(I also failed citizenship apparently getting bored and wandering off is a bad thing to do or something!)