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  1. #11
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Wow, Athenian. It seems short-sighted. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Efficiency is the end of all things now?
    Well, with something like the method of getting words down on paper, yes. I'm not talking about art.
    Oh well, pray your city is never hit by an EMP bomb anytime soon.
    Allowing handwriting as a primary form to go away doesn't mean people would forget how to depict the symbols without a computer in an emergency. Just like writing with a pen doesn't mean people have forgotten how to use a chisel and hammer to carve things in stone.

    I'm just saying that handwriting should be relegated to a ceremonial or artistic significance much like carving things in stone was after we started using ink.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I started to think about my earlier post and expected to hear a question about why waste the time to communicate in an elegant style.

    And I began to think of the "perfect" handwriting of my mother and father. All the letters uniform and in a straight row. They were very proud of their hand-writing and I remember when they began to bemoan the fact that their writing became increasingly unintelligible with age.

    I thought a possible anti response would have something to do with expediency and productivity. And I began to think of the previous generations who had time to both write well AND invent the airplane, the computer, etc. while they were also dealing with forming modern social culture, dealing with financial depression and two world wars. Heh.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #14
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I started to think about my earlier post and expected to hear a question about why waste the time to communicate in an elegant style.

    And I began to think of the "perfect" handwriting of my mother and father. All the letters uniform and in a straight row. They were very proud of their hand-writing and I remember when they began to bemoan the fact that their writing became increasingly unintelligible with age.

    I thought a possible anti response would have something to do with expediency and productivity. And I began to think of the previous generations who had time to both write well AND invent the airplane, the computer, etc. while they were also dealing with forming modern social culture, dealing with financial depression and two world wars. Heh.
    Maybe people spend too much time on Youtube today. It's probably why we're so fat. I've very often wondered the same thing myself: how did those people from yesteryear manage to accomplish so much, and do it all very well? Probably because they did more, period. I remember a P.E. teacher in his forties telling us that he wouldn't run laps with us because he would embarrass us schoolkids, haha.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, with something like the method of getting words down on paper, yes. I'm not talking about art.
    Thank goodness I have a sense of aesthetics.

    Allowing handwriting as a primary form to go away doesn't mean people would forget how to depict the symbols without a computer in an emergency.
    That's not really true. You retain skills best by actually using them on a continual basis.

    Just like writing with a pen doesn't mean people have forgotten how to use a chisel and hammer to carve things in stone.
    I don't know about that. I remember having to teach kids how to use a ratchet to unscrew a bolt in my Auto mechanics courses.

    I'm just saying that handwriting should be relegated to a ceremonial significance much like carving things in stone was after we started using ink.
    Or how about you have a more balanced approach between the two?

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post


    I was thinking about some cataclysmic event like that. Tools are okay until you become reliant on them for survival. Then your species becomes endangered.

    Oh, and Athenian, I tried to explain some possible advantages to handwriting over typing in my original post. Do you have any thoughts on what I said about the subconscious influence of it, that is, some extra bits being transferred through it that don't carry over in typing?
    I don't think anything that's being lost is significant enough to warrant holding on to it as a primary tool rather than an auxiliary/emergency one. The point of writing is to express language in a text format. We can still use different fonts, bold and italicized text, and change the color of our text on a computer, remember.

    Handwriting makes sense as an art form or something ceremonial, but surely you must agree that it's impractical for everyday use.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Handwriting makes sense as an art form or something ceremonial, but surely you must agree that it's impractical for everyday use.
    I use handwriting everyday, especially at work, where we don't even have access to computers except for higher up business.

    Plus this is built on the false presupposition of the disconnect between art(aesthetics) and everyday life - which is a false premise of modernity. We can also add the semi-Spenglerian contrast between culture and civilization.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Don't look now, Athenian, but you've been brainwashed by the tech culture.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Wow, Athenian. It seems short-sighted. . .
    I think you're romanticizing it too much because you grew up with it. Don't feel bad, a lot of people do that.

    I'm just saying that it makes NO SENSE to do something in a slower way that takes more resources just because of the fear of what will be lost. Handwriting should be preserved as an art form, for ceremony, and for emergency situations, but I don't see any good reason to keep it as an everyday tool when it's no longer the best way.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I hope this isn't a derail. Perhaps it is connected to the OP.

    It was an article I read in the paper last week about the narrow window of opportunity each child has to learn certain basic communication skills. It mentioned that today's children are defficient in some areas of one-to-one communication because they have been interacting with machines to the detriment of their living skills.

    It's not surprising to hear someone verbalize the thoughts that they are expendable but it is frightening. I do see the tendency toward your thoughts and attitude, Athenian. But I also see the social state of things these days and it doesn't look like the prevailing direction is for the positive.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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