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  1. #41
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.
    Armpits and civil discourse would be good. Problem is most kids are supposed to learn that at home. But they aren't.

    Unfortunate that we keep dumbing down the classes so the lowest common denominator can pass.

    A bright person like you could probably learn some advanced techniques and find them advantageous but it would probably make the class a drag for less intelligent kids.

    There is always a further level that a subject can be carried if people aren't too lazy to pursue it.

    Incidently I meet quite a few college-educated kids who are truly poorly equipped. I am astonished at what passes for an education these days. Are people able to tell when they are being taught something useless or are they just clueless about what they may be missing?

    I know for me that many of the things I thought were worthless for my future came in handy later. Kids aren't always able to see what they need til they get there.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #42
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    have you ever taken a 500 or 5000 level English course in University? I think you'd be surprised at the intellectual stimulation that level provides.
    Such as what happened to me? I never knew blind obedience to anti-walmart propaganda constituted "intellectual stimulation"... thanks!

  3. #43
    Senior Member Warm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Like, sucking so much that they create in inescapable vacuum of s***iness which would only result in a catastrophic singularity of b**** shit to engulf the entire world and reduce us all to being subject to their mentally unstable, lunatic, horrible f'tastic teaching methods (teaching how being an old dried up b**** actually has some value to you and society) in the dimension of s***iness that they then create, existing entirely within their own ego-maniacal minds.

    Seriously, why? Why is every English teacher I've EVER encountered a weird, bitchy, crazy, angry, off the handle, marbles missing, vindictive, egotistical, liberal, old, pruney woman? I just don't understand. Why are they all like this!? Surely there must be a decent person teaching this freaking subject SOMEWHERE!
    Um, I'm an English teacher who is nothing like this. For some reason, my students love me. It's a bit ridiculous because I have kids who drop by but have never been in my class.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Such as what happened to me? I never knew blind obedience to anti-walmart propaganda constituted "intellectual stimulation"... thanks!
    Where are you studying?

    If you're in high school you're fairly well stuck with what you get. But once you're in higher education it's time to stop letting education "happen" to you. It's not a passive process. You need to pursue quality education in order to get it. Have you researched where you will receive the type of education you desire? Are you able to discern between what is needed rather than what you like?

    You have a responsibility to actively search for what you need. That places the onus directly back in your lap and not the teacher's if you are out of highschool and paying for junk education.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #45
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own

  6. #46
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    You know Nights an English teacher?

    I wonder what it's like to be in his class.
    I didn't realize that! High-five, Night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Eileen's one, too. And she's lovely
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Because they put too much imprtance on spelling and grammar.
    I don't in daily life, usually, but I can't help that I do NOTICE every spelling and grammar error there is. However, English class is hardly all about grammar and spelling; in fact, I haven't taught enough of it this semester.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    People gravitate toward English rather that philosophy because they dont put much stock in individual interpretation but believe in the underlyning message that they believe is deffinatly written. Therfore they may see their ideas and opinions as fact more often than not and look down on others who question or dissagree.

    I dont really know.
    I'm sure there are English teachers like this, and I have taught with some of them, but the majority of the teachers I know (and, uh, the ones I like) are all about "You can say what you want, but you have to be able to explain why. There must be a preponderance of evidence to substantiate your claim." There are established movements in literature to contend with, and sometimes for the sake of teaching Romanticism etc, you have to say something like "One of the themes of this piece of literature could be X. Now what details help to create this particular theme?"


    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    In answer to the OP, we don't. In fact, we are hot.


    When I do suck vigorously, I promise that it is never, ever a student. I prefer math teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    TaDa! You rang, Risen?

    I'll own (semi) liberal, weird, old and woman. But if you put me in a lineup, you'd pick me out as the sixties chick stuck on hippy setting. Or, depending on the day, biker babe.

    I can hold a whole class of prejudiced, stereotyping dudes like you for forty-five minutes and make you LIKE it! No kidding.

    So get a perspective, Guy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    +1
    -2

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.
    Dude, it is so not about learning English when you get to college, but having worked in a university writing center in which I worked with undergraduates and graduates on a range of essay assignments, I can assure you that not everybody has the grasp of written language that they should at the college level.

    My English classes in college were not especially challenging for me - I complained about that in my exit interview. However, I DID have a few critical theory classes that stretched my brain and helped me see how many different ways there are to approach a text. It may be that you simply don't think that being able to read in a variety of ways is important... or that you just don't get it. Whatever.

    There are good and bad teachers everywhere, in every subject. There are also great students (who are both academically and personally excellent) and not so great students (who may have a range of academic or personal quality levels).

    For my part, kids who behave and let me do my job tend to like me and enjoy my classes. I understand that my job is not to teach kids what literature says but how to read it closely. I happen to be in a department of teachers who share that same pedagogical belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own
    Comp is almost never taught by actual professors, and comp classes do tend to suck because the TAs are frequently not given many guidelines for them. Nonetheless, it is important that ANY professional is adept at written expression.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. #47
    Senior Member fleurdujour's Avatar
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    lol I think there are some gross generalizations going on here. I've been lucky and have had some pretty good English teachers (mostly in high school, College ones haven't been quite as good)--some bad ones too, of course. I'm an English major and have thought of teaching, so hopefully I wouldn't end up being one of the crazy nasty ones you're talking about! I think it's the same with any teachers... you get some good, some bad, sometimes you end up with a streak of bad ones... etc... Maybe you'll get lucky and get a good one sometime. Maybe they're just not challenging/teaching you the way that works well for you or the way that encourages you to get enjoyment out of the class? Are you in high school, college, or...?

  8. #48
    Senior Member fleurdujour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.

    English classes are not literally about the English language (in most cases). If you have mastered English grammar and are proud of yourself for that--that's great (not sarcastic)! Many people cannot say the same (most media publications even have at least one grammatical error). But this is not what you should be looking for in your English classes (especially at college or even high school level). English classes and the English subject, for the most part, are about English literature and the creative use of the English language. There is no other way to better learn about all aspects of the world--its past, present, and future--than to read the true inner depths of another person's thought. Saying English is a useless subject in college is saying anything in college or life is useless. Maybe you're so bitter toward English because you're looking strictly for straightforward fact in it and are not applying what you're reading to anything else--assimilating it in your own life as you would with anything else you learn (and by that I don't just mean assimilating what you learn from the literature itself, but also about how to read, think, and write critically, which is a useful skill to have and be able to apply to any subject or area of your life). English literature is often not straightforward and not to be taken for face value. It requires you to really think. You're not spoon-fed information for a reason--you are encouraged to form ideas and absorb ideas that help you to see the world in different ways. And if you are thinking, "what is the point of seeing other views of the world when I know where I stand?" then you are inhibiting yourself from gaining any insight or intelligence from anything in your life. As Einstein himself said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." You will never grow as a person or see anything great in your lifetime if you can't appreciate some aspect of non-fact. Also, if you are bitter because you feel like you are above all of the grammar (and thus, by your reasoning, the English language), then you are also sorely mistaken. Until you can write a masterful creative piece of literature filled with depths of meaning and masterful employment of the English language, you are not above any English class and the study of masterful pieces of literature by artists that have already accomplished such (just as you cannot argue that you are above a mathematician that can kick your a$$ at devising a complex equation to solve a multifaceted mathematical dilemma).

  9. #49
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I mean... I think I've had one that was KINDA nice out of probably 15 English teachers in my life (I moved a lot as a kid). I don't know what it is, but I seem to always get the ones that have something to prove and someone to tear down. Half the time they will target me for whatever reason. I've always been a good student, and always respectful of my teachers. What I've found with these bitter old English women is they have a surprisingly marked lack of respect. That's the best way I can describe it. They just see students, and based on some unknown criteria, decide that they are not even deserving of a humane level of respect. For this reason I have often found myself having to do battle with these people, though I hate having to go that route; they leave me no other choice. I find it surprising that I am still facing this even on the college level. It's disheartening. It seems that peace and avoidance doesn't work with these people, so I will once again have to be a hard ass with these teachers lest they walk all over me. It all seems so juvenile in a very high school sort of way...
    Your title post is incoherent fuzz, so I'll comment on this particular post.

    As a former teacher, I can tell you that most tenured teachers are very difficult to upend from their position. What's more, so long as they engineer their curriculum to adhere to the Standards and Benchmarks of their respective state, it is very difficult for an external source (you) to cultivate sufficient data to warrant disciplinary action (like termination/replacement), short of egregious malfeasance on the part of the teacher.

    That isn't to suggest that teachers who do not meet your personal criteria are necessarily adequate/inadequate professionals. More often than not, you are witnessing a single digit of behavior from within the vast occupational expectations handbook teachers are anticipated to embody. On the whole, most teachers (especially new ones) will typically work anywhere from 50-60 hours/wk (minus take-home corrections/lesson planning; commute; extracurricular student activities; etc.) for substandard pay (27-33K/yr in Wisconsin, depending on district).

    Sure, it's nice to have summers off and great health coverage, but the level of stress one encounters is...incredible.

    Not a business I'm interested in pursuing again.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own
    Okey-dokey. I'm sure I haven't a clue.

    Sorry that you're encountering substandard ed. It's on the menu these days. My statements stand that it's up to you to make sure you get what you need if the system isn't providing it.

    And please don't miss the fact that good communication skills are at the base of nearly every job you can pursue.

    A positive attitude now will pay off at work as well.

    Hey, fellow English majors.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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