Quote:
Originally Posted by athenian200
Are you positive they aren't ESTP's? They don't sound like any J's I know of. J's just don't act like that, sorry. Plus, I think ESTJ's tend to be a little more professional than the people you described.
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I can see your thinking but I reckon that they are ESTJ, I'll try to go through why..
Theory X vs Theory Y - If you've studied management then you'll probably know these but if not then theory X (if I remember these the correct way around) is more about workers being lazy and requiring watching to make sure they don't slack off, it's about strict time management and marshalling the workforce. Theory Y is, obviously, it's opposite, workers do have some ethics and if you create a place where they can work in comfort then you'll get more out of them.
Now I'd say that theory X is negative SJ. I'd go one step further and say it suits a negative ESTJ very well. The theory Y is more INFP or something. Anyhow these guys are ALL theory X like it was a bible or something.
Question and answer - Were I dealing with an ESTP I'd expect to receive a lot more questions. My missus is an ESTP and even when she's wound up she'll pursue the answer until she's got it. This lot seem more comfortable making an assumption or a sweeping statement and walking off happy that they have judged the result to be X and so it is X.
Is a stick reversed still a stick? - This point goes to the core of why I sometimes disagree with people's assesment of a persons type (oh and I'm not criticising you Athenian, it's just part of my reasoning for believing that these guys are ESTJs). If a J is stressed then their "judgements" increase in rapidity until they can seem P in their lack of direction but they never reach it. What is, usually, a reliable and solid type can become very capricious and shifting under certain conditions. Hell I know an ISTJ who's normally a source of rules and rigidity of thinking but if you look at how he dresses then excuses appear and badly formed reasoning is very apparent. A J is judgemental by preference but they will use P when necessary and can become trapped in it. For example one ENFP which I know is quite the ENFJ and tests as such but is actually an ENFP. It's just that his background was one where J was appreciated a lot more and so he adjusted. Note that his type does not change but his personality does.
In regard to this behaviour the subject to which I refer spend a large amount of time sniping at others and defending themselves. They have no real self confidence and as such it's my guess that they are rapidly J-ing any threat to their self security and end up seeming quite P-ish.
Anyhow, wittering now. Carry on.