Quote:
Originally Posted by proteanmix
So are you asking for help or just bitching about ESTJs?
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Just expressing some experiences.
"help" was one of the goals but more in the sense of comparitive experiences and solutions more so than "this is how you talk to an ESTJ" cause that's just not me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by athenian200
Those sound like immature ESTJs. I'm sure that some of the more well-rounded one's don't act like that. Anyway, as far as the ones you described, you have my sympathy if you have to deal with people like that. They sound so unmindful, uninsightful, and almost downright aggressive. I think I have fewer problems with them than you, though, because if I disagree with them, I tend to do it in a very insistent, stressed manner. I can be as stubborn as they are if I have to be to get something done, but I don't like having to be, because it makes me feel insensitive and hateful.
Most of the time, though, they seem more than willing to work with me to do something as long as I show them how it's in their best interest. But it can take a lot of explaining. Most of the ones I know are similar to those things, but they aren't quite as aggressive. Just kind of slow and stubborn sometimes. They remind of Capricorns.
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Well one of them would be a real old adolescent if that's the cause
Don't get me wrong I've been working with them (well two of the three) for years now and I can work with them but I have to virtually nullify my N and certainly don't try to express observed patterns or such.
To put the experiences down to a concentrated form, ESTJ#1 comes up to me as I'm working on the database. This is my baby and I'm the only one capable of doing anything with it beyond operating it. I was working on some upgrades or something (irrelevant detail IMO) and he asked what I was doing. Now I don't like talking down or up to people so I told him what I was doing in terms he should be able to understand but without spoon feeding him or treating him like an idiot. His brow furrowed as he thought about it and then the response came back as "you could'a just told me you were f'kin about". I think that aptly describes the situation. Just thought that as ESTJs tend to get brushed off as some kind of king of assholes it'd be nice to go a bit more in depth. Spread the understanding.
The "insistent, stressed manner" rang bells. About the only time the most proactive of this trio will leave me be is if I take a swat at him. I'd do it more often but it's far more expressive than I am comfortable being.
I gotta wonder if there's a predatory strain in the ESTJ profile. This lot certainly act like a pack of dogs in that respect.