Quote:
Originally Posted by dissonance
so...
Se gets information in the form of photons, air molecules, etc. Ne is necessary to differentiate between and organize objects. Se alone would see a classroom as basically sensory gibberish. Ne alone wouldn't have any information to connect -- it basically sees a void. so they have to trade off hundreds of times a second to see the room as a bunch of people sitting in wooden desks listening to a teacher, etc. etc.
or, would some other function be able to do the work i attributed to Ne? would Se take in some gibberish that Si would make sense of based on the past? or would Ti break down the information into decipherable patterns?
still, an Ne dom would have to use Se no matter what. so how would Se be an ENxPs #8 function? in fact, most ENxPs i know tend to favor an attitude of extroverted perception in general; it's not one OR the other, it's both -- with an emphasis toward one. i certainly use Se much less frequently than my ENTP ex.
so your function order formula might work for certain types, but it can't work for Ne doms.
or, maybe you're going to say that although Se is used often, it's less conscious? that would make sense.
anyways, the model i have in my mind is quite different. think of an INTP, for example. their preferred function is Ti. some of them might consciously reject Fi's influence. but some of them may just have a strong preference for Ji -- they get information from a Pe, Ti it, then Fi it. (they're extremely I and extremely P, but only moderately T)
or, say the INTP stays in Ti a ridiculous amount of the time. Ti would want information, any kind of information, to analyze. they like the information they get from Ne, but what if they also used Se a significant amount of the time?
is that possible?
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Concerning your example, the two functions need not be Ne and Se per se. There needs to be a combination of sensation and Intuition. Generally, we have a combination of an introverted abstract function and an extroverted concrete or other way around. An introbverted perceiving funciton can well collect information about the external world.
However, we find proof for Introverted perception properly collecting information of the external world when we ask an ISTJ to talk about what they saw in the room they visited 2 days ago. Almost impeccably they'd be able to describe every object they have seen.
Or when we ask an INTJ to summarize the theory that has just been presented to them. We shall notice a similar effect.
I should however mention that the introverted perception is indeed much influenced by our unconscious tendencies of perception, yet it does not greatly preclude the perceiver from making accurate observations.
E.G
Ne/Si
Si/Ne
Ni/Se
Se/Ni
This is the case because such functions are active for a given type. A dormant function is much less likely to be influential than an active.
Keep in mind, inthe case of anENFP (as I understand your example), having inferior S does not imply lack of concrete data, but rather limited access. The ENFP still would hae enough access to get the imae of a classrom and chairs.
Another note on this is that pure perception only gives you an image. You can react to it intuitively (N) or by impulse. Yet in order to make a conscious assessment of the situation you need to use a conscious function. Either Thinking or Feeling.
Or in other words, you can flash images in your head about hte classroom, you can reflect on your memories of the cchairs you saw in the room. Yet in order for you to make assessments like, 'this room reminded me of the room I saw 2 years ago in a different school'. Or 'this room makes me anxious'. You need to use Thinking or Feeling.